This interview with Macka B, conducted by the Ranking Miss P, was broadcast on London Live 94.9fm on 4th June 2000.

Miss P Now Macka B, I want to talk to you about lots of things, but I want to talk to you about roots music. Is it true that it's on the rise again here in the UK?

Macka B Yeah man, yeah man, definately. Not just in the UK, but all over the world. America, Africa, even places as far as Australia and those places you know. The people they're longing for certain messages you know. It's like, a lot of the youths especially, they're not really hearing certain messages. If they're watching TV, they're watching a certain t'ing, they read certain t'ings and they listening to certain kind of music, so they don't really hear the other side of the story.

And that's where the roots music really come in, it's telling the other side, the half that's never been told. And the youths are really crying out for the half that's never been told. I think they've noticed that with certain kind of music, certain kind of lyrics, they don't really last long 'cos there's no foundation in them. The roots music, while we still have certain t'ing like racism, economic pressures and people looking for ways out, and roots music is one of those channels of expression where people can find a way out.

Even with myself, we give certain word sounds, but that's not all, there's more than just the words. The words is just the start of it, and it's up to the individual to take the words and manifest them into practice. The roots music right now is very important, one of the most important musics on the market right now.

Miss P But unlike so many other black music genres, doesn't seem to be getting any support from us on the ground in any great numbers, why is that still the case?

Macka B To be honest, one of the saddest things about roots music, is when you travel abroad and, like Europe and those places, you realise a lot of white people are really into the roots. Sometimes you look at the black community and think "well, how come they're not into the roots?" 'Cos, it's praimarily, you could say, for them to get out of the situation that they're in.

I think they more into the brain washing, y'know. They're more into the Americanisation of things. Especially in England, everybody is following America and thinking that's the way forward, but if you look at America, they got more problems than anywhere else in the world. So, sometimes I think we have to blame the media for not putting enough choice for the youths. It's like it's all one t'ing...

Miss P They could argue that, economically, it doesn't make sense for them to sell a music, or play a music that isn't gonna sell, that isn't gonna generate enough financial interest.

Macka B But who said it's not gonna sell? I did an experiement with my youths y'know. For about 2 weeks I only played them some old time roots music, and y'see at the end of those 2 weeks they were singing every single song, and they loved every single song. It's people love what they're getting, and so if you play certain t'ing to people, after a while, after so many times of hearing a certain t'ing, they're gonna get used to it and start singing it. With the roots music it's a positive message that they're singing, hopefully when they sing it, they're thinking about it and start doing something to right the wrongs.

Miss P When we talk about roots music, are we including dancehall roots, in the vein of Capleton and Sizzla, or has roots again been broken down into different catagories?

Macka B Well personally, I would include Sizzla and Capleton, 'cos it's the message, when they're talking the right message...

Miss P Ah, this is what I'm saying, now, we have a roots artist who's speaking the wrong message. Isn't that confusing?

Macka B Yeah, it's confusing, but that's the way of life y'know. The people are not fools 'yknow . When there's a roots artist and he's not saying something which is totally positive, the people can check it out and see all these clues. We always have to look for clues in certain things. A lot of the time people put these artists on a pedestal, like a idol, and that's one of the worst t'ings. Even me as a youth, I used to listen to certain artists and when I grow up and meet them, I wish I never meet them, 'cos they different from what they were saying.

Miss P Mmm. Took away the illusion.

Macka B Yeah, that's it. We shouldn't live on an illusion, we should know that nobody's perfect, only the most high, y'know. So, yeah I do include certain people like Sizzla and Capleton when they're talking the right t'ings, 'cos the message, if it's a message of truth and rights, that's the main thing.

Miss P OK. Sound systems! We have to talk about sound systems, 'cos of course that is where you came from originally. Up through the sound systems, like so many of our great reggae exponents. Now outside of London I cannot... I mean I know earlier days we had really massive sound systems like Quaker City and stuff like that coming from Birmingham, and Wasifa, that's the sound system that you came from right?

Macka B Yeah, Wasifa yeah.

Miss P How was that coming through the sound system out in the sticks?

Macka B The sticks? (laughs). There is a lot of sticks there y'know!

Miss P Alright, I'm sorry. Outside of the M25. The desert we call the sticks, I know it's not really the case 'cos it's very vibrant, in fact more vibrant than in London.

Macka B That's what a lot of people say y'know. But the vibes was nice y'know, it's a good foundation for a DJ or entertainer to come through a sound system. 'Cos that's where you learn your trade, you do your apprenticeship on the sound system. Because I've done certain t'ings on sound system, anyt'ing that comes at me I can deal with it y'know.

You find some people who haven't been on a sound, when they confronted with certain things, they can't deal with it. But we've done it y'know. We pass through things where, we don't even know what riddim is coming on next, and you got to DJ to that riddim y'know. So you got to get the key, get everything, get your lyrics quick, in a matter of seconds. And we always did it, we never really flopped ourselves. The sound system is a great thing, even for the youths...

Miss P Do you think we've lost that facility, or we're losing that facility in the wake of things like PA performances for DJ's, where they walk on without a sound and a bag of records, maybe, if you're lucky. And really the art is gone, because there are no real selectors or real MC's anymore or DJs anymore, it's just like a little hustling, juggling thing. Do you think sound system and the work and the importance of sound system is being lost amongst all the hype?

Macka B Yeah man. It's become, as you say, like a hustling t'ing, and even it used to be a place for young entertainers to spread their wings, and get noticed y'know. But now that's all gone, now it's just a DJ playing dub plates, which is fine still, there's a place for everyt'ing, but we miss the sound system vibes and I know of some sounds who are directly bringing back those vibes y'know.

'Cos for the young entertainers there's nowhere for them to be noticed and come out y'know. They have to go straight into a studio, and sometimes people are not willing to take them straight into a studio. Some sound is bringing back the sound system t'ing, bringing back the entertaining, bringing back the selecting, and playing 'til a morning y'know. And not just for young, for old as well y'know, bring everybody back together in the dance tat's what we really need.

Miss P Get the original essence of dancehall which has somehow been confused with ragga, and it's not.

Macka B No 'cos dancehall is just inna dance! Any kind of music is dancehall music. Even Lovers Rock is dancehall music.

Miss P Well I heard Rod Stewart down in Stone Love in Jamaica, and the crowd was rocking, so I consider that to be dancehall too. I think it's a state of mind really, it's the dance your in, the mood your in, the mood the selectors in. Dancehall is a state of mind, as opposed to something you can definately define on any particular day. What about you and sound system are you still working 'round Wasifa?

Macka B Not really. Wasifa is not really playing out that much again. But anytime a sound system ask me to do a t'ing I'll do a t'ing, 'cos I love those vibes still, and sometime Mad Proffesor has got a dub show, which is almost like the sound vibes. We was in America a couple of weeks ago, and it was like being on the sound system again. The vibes is nice, the sound vibes can't really come out of me y'know.

Miss P I want to take you back to the beginning of your career. After you came through Wasifa, there was a televison program, remember "Ebony"? And we both did something for "Ebony". I did the theme song, and you used to provide a weekly commentary done in the DJ style. And what happened after that, 'cos I know you used to get loads of interst coming off of that weekly slot that you used to do. This was "Ebony", a BBC2 televison programme aimed at the black community at the time, eraly '80s. So what happened after "Ebony"?

Macka B That's how I met the Mad Professor really y'know. He saw one of the "Ebony" programmes, and he sent a message with Peter Culture, a singer on Professors label, and he come and say Mad Professor wouldn't mind meeting me. I'd heard of Mad Professor, and I said well I wouldn't mind meeting him as well y'know.

So me go down there, and I played him a cassette of some of my lyrics, and he liked them, and he played me some of his riddims, and I liked them so we say yeah we must get together, and we did the Sign Of The Times LP, in '85, '86 y'know. It did really well-number 1 in reggae charts, start to go international and people say them love it. After that we've been doing LP's ever since then really.

Mad Professor don't really censor me, and he's very much into black awareness, which is what I'm really into as well, although we're on a global level and we're dealing with unity. We ha fe deal with the sick part of the t'ings first you know, 'cos the black community is in need. When I look around the black community, we still feeling the effects of slavery, and we have to break those mental chains.

Miss P When we use those arguments, fair enough, but you may have someone from the Jewish community saying, "yeah, but the jewish population also suffered the holocaust, and managed to somehow use that, gain a strength from it, mobilise themselves in modern times. How are we not able to do this? Thee are so many cultures and races who have suffered slavery and brutality.

Macka B Yeah, but it's a different kind of slavery still y'know. It's the taking away of someones total culture, it's the taking away of someones name, it's the wiping away of someones total history. Not knowing who you are, not being able to speak your own language, not having no funds y'know. Although the Jews were done bad by Hitler, there was a lot of jews who were rich still at that time y'know, and black people in the west had to start from the very bottom.

Miss P There were so many black people who were rich too!

Macka B In Africa, yeah, yeah, but I'm talking about in the west. We had to start from the very bottom. There's even people now who don't know who they are. A big problem. When you go to a doctor, the first thing they will say to you is "let me have a look at your medical history". And so you need the medical history to treat someone in the present, and help them in the future. So it's the same t'ing with the black community, to know your history you need to know where you come from. You need to know that you didn't start on the plantation, there was things before then y'know.

Miss P But don't you think that there are enough of us armed with the right information to mobilise the others to make some kind of move forward. Y'know, another year of hearing "well we're suffering the effects of mental slavery", and looking around and seeing that no one's really doing anything about it though.

Macka B But the first thing, you have to be aware, that you are suffering from it so you can do something about it. The pointing out of it is the first thing. It's a reality, it's not something that I made up, it's really real. You can see it.

Miss P What I'm trying to get to though Macka B is why is it effecting us so badly, still?

Macka B It's still happning. I don't know if you know of the Willie Lynch syndrome and those things, it's still happening. Willie Lynch was a slave master who said, they had a meeting with the rest of the slave masters and he said they're losing too much of their slaves, they're hanging them, they're running away, he knows a way which would keep them for hundreds or thousands of years. So he just magnified the differences, you pick the light against the dark, you pick the young against the old. And if you look araound now, that's what's happening. And if you see some people, it's like they're frightened of their own reflection.

Miss P But if Willie Lynch was able to persuade the other slave masters that this was a good tactic to use to enslave peoples minds, and we are now in possesion of this information, and we know the code, the tricks of the trade, why is it still effecting us? This is what I'm trying to understand.

Macka B Now maybe you know, but there's a lot of people who refuse to accept it. Refuse to say that anything is wrong, while they're just conforming, they are still under a form of mental slavery.

Miss P But are we able to really live in the west, without conforming to western ideals and western standards. If we want to live as Africans surely that means packing up and going to Africa, with some sort of plan of course, not just going there.

Macka B Yeah, yeah. Well that is the final goal yeah. While we are here, there's things we have to learn here. There's ways which people can live, there's a unity. If you can't unite together here...

Miss P But I just if we're making the most of our opportunities to move forward. That's my concern.

Macka B Yeah but, there's not enough of us who's doing it y'know. So the more of us who really accept it, and spread the message and try to change things, the better for all of us. 'Cos it's not a easy t'ing y'know. There's people who will fight against you, for just trying to help y'know. People who will want to kill you just for trying to help them into bettering themself, trying to find a bettter position for themself, but, it's something that we have to do.

I feel that because I've been given a certain talent, by the most high, I feel it's part of my duty just to try and help in anyway that I can. If I can point out to certain people, and if they can accept it and maybe change one little bit. If I can change one person, one youth to try and step forward, then yeah, I'm doing something right y'know.

Miss P What I love about Macka B, is your ability to deal with the serious issue this minute, and then the next track could be something so humourous. So how are you able to balance your witticisms and your very obvious and very sharp sense of humour with the real serious issues, and how are you able to make people take you seriously, and reamin credible with your serious issues? It's quite a task isn't it and it's quite a fine balance.

Macka B Yeah, but it's not a t'ing wha' is really too explainable y'know. Sometimes you just go with the vibes you know. Sometimes I will hear a riddim, and the vibes will just come. It's not like I can force the vibes. It's a spiritual t'ing, even though it's a humourous t'ing, but it's a serious t'ing. Is like, we see weself as like our body is a temple of the most high, so we are like instruments of the most high, certain vibes running through us y'know. So when the vibes come I just allow the vibes to come. I don't really sit down and work it out and say well this one's gonna be funny and this one's gonna be serious y'know. How the vibes come is just how the vibes come, and it goes on the record just how the vibes come.