This interview with Leonard Dillon, conducted by the Ranking Miss P, was broadcast on London Live 94.9fm in London on 24th September 2000.

Intro music : Locust

Miss P: Leonard, welcome to London.

Leonard: OK, Miss P, Ranking. It's a pleasure to be here.

Miss P: I couldn't have an original Ethiopian in the house without going back into some of the history, about the Ethiopians, about how you came into the music business, because it's all very fascinating, and we don't get the chance very often to speak with you. So give us a brief background on the Ethiopians, I mean there was originally a trio wasn't there.

Leonard: Yeah. I'm originally from Port Antonio, grew up in a family that's a Christian family, 7 day adventists.

Miss P: So there's lots of church music in...

Leonard: Yeah. And they are all musicians. My grandfather is a conductor, and he was a choir master in the church, so I have a lot of inborn thing where music is concerned. So I left Port Antonio, and went to Kingston. There I met up on Peter Touch, who later introduced me to Bob and Bunny, and sung some songs to them, and they love it. They took me to Studio 1, and that's it!

Miss P: And the rest as far as the forming of you, in the singing business, that's how it started.

Leonard: That's how I entered the singing business. And after working with Bob, Peter and Bunny for a while, we did 4 songs, well they were just coming, just did Simmer Down, they were just coming in the business also, they didn't have enough time to spend with me, and the songs that I make always be good songs. And I left Studio 1 and went to work on my trade as a builder, and there I met upon Steven Taylor and Aston Morris, and there was born the Ethiopians.

Miss P: So, I mean you kind of went quickly over the Studio 1 era with the Wailers and everything. Wasn't it a good time at Studio 1 for you?

Leonard: Yes, yes! That all my experience. That is where all my experience came from.

Miss P: So why did you leave?

Leonard: (laughs) As I said before, Bob did't have enough time, Bob, Bunny and Peter to spend with me. So I left and go form a group for myself. So I went back to Studio 1...

Miss P: With the other two.

Leonard: Yeah. And we just went back now and start spitting hit, one after the other. There was Live Good, Owe Me No Pay Me, Free Man, I'm Gonna Take Over. Just a chain of hit.

Miss P: So what was it like in those days, 'cos obviously you were very much into the Lord and the roots side of the market, which, Coxson wasn't really a fan of roots music too much. So how did you get on with him, with the lyrical content that your songs had, and your message that you were passing over?

Leonard: I wouldn't say that y'know. I wouldn't say that he is not really with(out) the culture. Because the name Ethiopian, we went to the studio, we were young, did not even know as much about Rastafari as I know today, we went to the studio with 2 name...

Miss P: What was the other name?

Leonard: I think it's the Heartaches (laughs).

Miss P: (laughs) I prefer the Ethiopians!

Leonard: And Downbeat choose, and I say "yeah, Ethiopians is the right name". That teaches me a lot, because elder Rasta's started to inspire I, and spirit of Jah that dwelleth within me started to taught me a lot of things. I was very much inspired, so what I was doing wasn't really off myself, but who that dwelleth within.

Miss P: You were being guided to give forth the works that you were doing. Wonderful. So after Studio 1, where did you go from there?

Leonard: I left Studio 1, and then I went back to my trade. There I met upon a man named Lee Robertson, and gave me £115. I told him that I was singing, I used to sing and I would like to do it again, and he gave me £115. It was a lot of money, 'cos that £115, that's what made Train To Skaville.

Miss P: Really? So that £115 actually paid for the making of Train To Skaville?

Leonard: Buy the tapes and the studio time. At the time musicians used to work for £15 per side.

Miss P: Or even less! So how comes you managed to get so much money? 'Cos usually producers weren't forthcoming with so much money for sessions, they'd either engineer the session themselves and keep everything...

Leonard: No. Well, mister Lee did not know anything about the music, he was a builder, and we were working with him and he always come around and hear me singing. He really loved the music, and he gave me the money, and even said to I, I must take Albert Griffiths with me. That's how Albert Griffiths went to the studio also, 'cos the flipside of Train To Skaville was a song called You Are The Girl, which we were the backup for Albert.

Miss P: The Gladiators!

Leonard: Yeah. At that time he was just Albert! (laughs) The song was labelled "Al & The Ethiopians".

(track played: Train To Skaville)

Miss P: Now Train To Skaville, massive, massive, massive hit all over the world, what did it do for you as a group?

Leonard: Oh my. Train To Skaville take me out of the pit. Because that song, we did it on our own, because Mr. Lee was just interested in helping me.

Miss P: This is why are say you are very lucky, because had it been an experienced producer, there's no way he would have given you the money to do the track and be the owner of the tape. He would have called you in for a session, and he would have kept ownership of the tape, so that is really well done.

Leonard: I'm a Sagittariun, I'm very lucky! (laughs)

Miss P: Very lucky or very smart, which one? So you retained all rights to that, and obviously made some money for yourselves, and was enable to fund further projects.

Leonard: Oh yes. From Train To Skaville I did The Whip, Cool It Amigo and Stay Loose Mama. All those came from the money that came from Skaville.

Miss P: OK. Now what about Engine 54?

Leonard: Well Engine 54 was done for JJ.

Miss P: There's a reason why I ask about that track, around about 1986, I was working for the national radio station here called Radio 1, and we had this singer and a DJ do a version of Engine 54. You would have loved it Leonard, it was my favourite. So from the national radio station on Radio 1, I also used it on the World Service. I hope you got paid for this, there's a lot of money over a whole heap of years, you should have got some money from the BBC.

Leonard: Yeah well, I collect my royalties.

Miss P: I can see that! You're a Sagitariun!. But that track is dear to my heart from that day on, and everytime I hear that track, funny enough I don't know if I should be ashamed to say this, bu I don't think of the Ethiopians, I think of myself! (both laugh) Because it reminds me of my work for the BBC, and I had that right throughout my career on the BBC, that was my signature tune, and it means alot to me. So alright from Train To Skaville financed further works for you, then what happened there?

Leonard There I break away now and started to do songs with every producers actually in Jamaica. A lot of songs for various producers. But my favourite producers were Sir JJ's, Sir D which is Coxson, Derrick Harriott. Lee Perry also.

Miss P: Quite a few. I mean Lee Perry was instrumental in your career. How did he help you?

Leonard: The first time when I went around the mic, he was the one that came and help me when I was trembling. When I was doing Ice Water (cut with the Wailers in 1965), I was trembling and he hold me and say "easy man, everyone go through this. Just relax and do it." He always there to coach you. He is the man who taught me percussion. I gain a lot out of him where percussion is concerned.

Miss P: So a lot of the rhythm tracks you had a part in, you didn't just go in as vocalists?

Leonard: No, I play percussion and I play congo and nyabinghi drum. Majority of my songs I play drums.

Miss P: So you know Train To Skaville, who did the chkka chkka (peps)?

Leonard: It's a friend of mine called Forsythe (?)

Miss P: And he did that just vocally, all the way through the song. Amazing. So those day now, everybody was in one room.

Leonard: Yeah, 2 tracks. Yes, and when the song start, if you got just near for it to finish and there's a spoil, you have to start again from the top. So you got to be sharp. And then the musicians, they would get ignorant if they work too much. So you have to be sharp and get it there. So we always have a thing saying "Ethiopians don't rehearse in the studio". When everytime I get to the studio, I'm always ready for the records.

Miss P: So you rehearse outside of the sessions, so that when you get there, musicians can't say "why you not ready?"

Leonard: I hassle my partners. They have to get up every morning early, and we have to go get rehearsal. In the evening when we cool out in the night, rehearsal again!

Miss P: So just paint a picture of what it was like growing up as a young man in Jamaica, with so many producers and artists, coming through. Reggae, rocksteady, we were just leaving the ska era, so rocksteady was coming through now, and everybody was young and up and coming, but it must have been the most exciting time to be in Jamaica at that time.

Leonard: Yeah, at those time y'know, the most importnat thing is to create a sound of your own. And that was the aim of everyone, create a sound of your own.

Miss P: And how did you go about doing that?

Leonard: I would say through the inspiration of the most high.

Miss P: And of course guidence from the producers you were working with, or was you...

Leonard: No, very early I started arranging all of my songs, most of my songs the producers gave me the money. I used to be in the studio, JJ gone to the bank. He's in the shop doing his business, and when he think that I gone through with the music, he just come there and I'm just finishing. 'Cos I always have an idea what I want, my mouth always play the horns part that I need first, my mouth always play the bass part first, y'understand?

Miss P: So can you read music sir?

Leonard: Oh no. I'm from a music creating family. My mother teaches music, my grandfather is a conductor. When they sing they " so, so me, do ray, me, so", they sing notes, and I cannot look at the notes and sing like that. I have the ear.

Miss P: You have the ear for it, so it's perfect pitch even if you can't read the music.

Leonard: Yeah, if there's a hundred instrument out there playing different tones, and one tone make a mistake, I can go pick him out.

Miss P: Now another man who was very instrumental in your career and your music developement was Joe Higgs, the fabulous Joe Higgs.

Leonard: Oh yes, he was a teacher in Studio 1, y'know a lot of voice training, how you must do your thing and, Joe was a cool guy too. A lot of us who came out of Studio 1 have credit to give to Joe, God bless his soul.

Miss P: So why is it that so many of these great people who were in and around the developement of reggae and rocksteady at that time really never got their dues until it was too late.

Leonard: Yeah, but not knowing the business, not knowing how wide it is going, cause you to just relax and through the love of the music you keep doing it.

Miss P: Not realising that there's another side to take care of.

Leonard: But you was not meditating upon the money, because you're thinking of what you're not getting then, and what you do get, you get 10% of what you're supposed to. You don't know the business as much, and now it's different.

Miss P: Alright, we've left Studio 1, and we've come through where you worked with several producers and made different tracks. What happened to the group then?

Leonard: Well, in 1975, the worst thing happen to me that year. I lost my partner, Steven Taylor, in a road accident, the Washington Boulevard. And for at least 2 years I was sick suffering from shock.

Miss P: Really, it affected you badly?

Leonard: Oh yeah. I went home to the country, isolate myself from the music, but still writing. I swore that I wouldn't sing for another producer, I didn't want to sing again, (without Steven Taylor) it wasn't in me, too tough. You see this country & western singer, Kenny Rogers? When I saw Kenny Rogers one night on the television and I saw a white haired guy, as a old man y'know? At that time I was just in my thirties or young forties, I said "wait, if that man can really go deh now, why I throw out this thing for ?"

Miss P: It inspired you to shake yourself off and start again.

Leonard: Yeah. Me get up now and me start to move, check Downbeat now and start to do some songs for him until I say I'm gonna cool out now and start save some money when I get my royalties.

Miss P: You like money don't you? (laughs)

Leonard: (laughs) Oh no, I don't like money, I love people, and I love my music, but money come from it, and I have nothing more doing so I feel I should live by it.

Miss P: I think you're right, and I think that's why you have a smile on your face today.

Leonard: Yeah, because it's not the money. (laughs)

Miss P: So, you decided to go back to Downbeat.

Leonard: Yeah, now I go back to Downbeat and relax. Came out, do some songs for him and relax again. Started to save some money, and decided I wasn't going to sing no more now, I was going to sing for my children, if I cannot do an album for myself. An I saved some money and I did this album On The Road Again, and I went to America and leased it onto Heartbeat.

Miss P: Started things rolling again. Now how were you received, one half of the Ethiopians, several years later. Was it a hard slug to get your name back into the limelight or were people very welcoming?

Leonard: They say nothing was gone. Because when I double track the songs nothing was missing. Locust? My partner is not in it, I did the harmony. I double track it to put 2, 3, harmony whatever I want in it. You hear it. Because the sound that I tell my partner to sing, that is what he sing. If I go there to do it...

Miss P: You know exactly what his part should be, you can provide his part. So how could you provide such fine tenors, when your voice is such an obvious baritone?

Leonard: (laughs) Your tone is all around y'know, you put it where you want it.

Miss P: But there's many people who couldn't really be that versatile.

Leonard: I sing falsetto.

Miss P: You sing falsetto as well? 'Cos I'm hearing you speaking to me, and it's like I'm hearing maybe Brook Benton or somebody like that.

Leonard: Well it's just a matter of clean lungs. Yeah, my lungs are strong.

Miss P: So you say nothing was lost, you were able to recreate the sounds anyway, because you knew what your partners sing.

Leonard: Well I lost an individual but the sound...

Miss P: Hasn't been lost. So you were able to really just start back where you left off in a sense. How did you feel without your partner knowing that I'm on the road again....

Leonard: Very much alone, until 1994. I went to a show in Utah in America, and I wanted to have some back up to travel with me, and the producer say he could not afford the plane fare for those harmony to travel with me, but he could provide me with two harmonies. And then I met upon Jean and Gee Gee, and from then we have been singing ever since.

Miss P: You seem to be a very loyal person, you have a partner or you make a team, and you like to stick to that team.

Leonard: Oh yeah. That is the thing that relax your mind. Your head don't move around, you know where you lie, you now what your doing.

Miss P: And you know that they know what you're doing. You can rest assured that the business is going through properly, that they're singing properly.

Leonard: Yeah. We did a new album the other day Tougher Than Stone, 16 songs, 16 original riddim tracks, and they're in it.

Miss P: What kind of music are you singing nowdays?

Leonard: Strictly original reggae roots. I'm a acoustic musician, acoustic music all the way. I'll do a little flavour in it with the computer, the roots the whole background, the bottom line is acoustic.