This interview with Derrick Morgan conducted by David Rodigan, was broadcast on Kiss 100fm in London on 20th May 2001.

Rodigan The first star of ska was Derrick Morgan. As early as 1957 at the age of 17 he was appearing in talent shows and 2 years later he cut his first record for producer Duke Reid. He would soon become a household name in West Indian communities around the world. In a career that spans 40 years, it is indeed an honour and a privilege to welcome Mr. Derrick Morgan to Kiss 100; Derrick it's great to have you in the house!

Derrick My pleasure!

Rodigan Derrick, first of all, thank you on behalf of all your fans here in London for the wonderful music you've given us, and for all the fun you've brought to the music. In those early years as a great pioneer you were there, you were part of the creation, the birth of Jamaican popular music - ska! What was that like? How did it feel? What was it like being a young lad growing up in Jamaica at that time?

Derrick Bwoy, it was so good for me y'know, because in those days every promoter was running me down after started recording for Duke Reid. I made a song called Lover Boy, and that was my first one with him, and Duke would play that on his sound right through y'know, and give it to Edwards and call it S Corner Rock. So it was a pleasure those days with me y'know, because everyone would be just on my side then; "bwoy Derrick, man, you is the man!" They call me the hitmaker, they call me the hitbreaker, they call me Shirley & Lee, they call me Jamaica Little Richard.

Rodigan That's right, because in 1957 you were doing these talent competitions doing Little Richard impressions!

Derrick Yes, because how I started, Eric " Monty" Morris, myself, Owen Grey, "Jackie" Wilfred Edwards , Hortense Ellis, and Richard brothers. We were in a contest with Vere Johns, and I was imitating Little Richard at the time, singing Long Tall Sally, and came in first. And that was how I started in the music business, because Bim & Bam in the audience hear me and like it, and they start take me around the island with them.

Rodigan Vere Johns was a legendary talent contset, used to happen in the Ward Theatre was it? If you won that you were somebody right?

Derrick Yes. When I did mine it was in Palace Theatre, and they used to do it in Ambassador Theatre, also in Majesty Theater.

Rodigan We just heard Forward March there, recorded to celebrate Jamaica's independence from Britain, August 1962. What was the mood of the people like in Jamaica?

Derrick Wow! That was a night, y'know. On the first night of our independence, 1962 on August 6th, every nation meet in Jamaica! Because we used to have a lot of ships that came in from all different countries, and that independent night, black, white, yellow, pink, all different colour people meet together, and everyone holding hands together, we're celebrating. That night will never come back in Jamaica, I'm telling you. That's the night I bust Forward March, that's the first time they heard it.

Because Beverley's and I...I sit down and say I want to write a song about this independence. Because what happen, in Jamaica, I don't think the people really know what was independent, or referendum as they was doing it. I don't think the politician teach the people them what it was about really. Because when I hear about independence time, I write the song, but I didn't really know what I write 'bout y'know? I don't know what was independent, but I just say, since it gone go, be independent, I just decide to write that song called Forward March, and telling the people them to move on, it's independence time, and gather together. It really work, because that the way people doing it. Everyone holding hands together, everybody rubbing up on one another. It was such a night.

Rodigan Meanwhile, if any fatman troubled your girl, it was trouble in the house. This, to my understanding, 1959 when you recorded it, your first big hit I believe in 1961 . Because they recorded songs then, and they only played them on acetate, or dubplate as we now know them, before they were released, and this tune is...

Derrick The only first release from me.

(song played : Fat Man)

Rodigan Feeling this record, you can hear the influence of American blues, r&b, be-bop, call it what you will. This is really before ska had started right?

Derrick Right. And this one, the band was called Trenton Spence and the all stars. You see, he's playing, like, Bolero style of music. Yes, it was before ska.

Rodigan Well the song was so popular down in Jamaica that you had to record it again, and indeed you did, and it was a big hit all over again.

(track played Fat Man (reggae version)

Rodigan So you dealt with the fat man, right?

Derrick Yes! (laughs) All these fat men ha` fe just draw back when I talk 'bout my girl!

Rodigan I saw you there reminiscing, the memories obviously come flooding back to you. So you mentioned sound systems, which sound systems were you listening to, because there you were in the lates '50s, you mentioned Duke Reid, Edwards. Who were the other top sound system players?

Derrick We had a sound called V-Rocket. I used to love to go to V-Rocket sound, because he used to play nice - when I say nice song, all songs are nice, but I mean when we are at V-Rocket dance, as it reach 12 O' Clock and he put on a song called "Midnight", everyman would try to hold on to them girl, y'know. He would give you a double changer of him slow songs going right back 'til about 1.30. You make your date there, y'know.

Rodigan So the Jamaican recording industry, it's at it's birth - the creation of the industry in those early days, we're talking late '50s here, just clarify the situation in terms of the actual studios. Federal was built in the late '50s?

Derrick Yes. Federal was our only studio at the time, away from the radio stations. Federal would be the only studio, is a one track studio. When your in that studio you have to do everything like you're on stage. The musician and the singer go down at the same time. If you sing a miss, they have to start all over, or if the musician miss, they have to start all over.

Rodigan So everyone had to be on point.

Derrick Yes. It wasn't so easy as now, where you can come back next day and put in a different thing, with 24 tracks and so on.

Rodigan But didn't that make it more exciting from a recording point of view?

Derrick It was more exciting, and you have more...it's better, plenty better to me at those days. But, it wouldn't better now because you can go home and consider say "well that no right", and you can move this and you put in that, but in my days, you have to be good. If you weren't good...because the musician don't want to play if your gonna stop all over everytime. they used to call me "One Cut Derrick" (laughs)

Rodigan And you, you're about 6 foot 4, 6 foot 3?

Derrick No, I'm just 6 feet.

Rodigan Well, you look taller. Particularly on your record sleeve as well, Forward March, in that very tight fitting Saville Row suit with the umbrella. Big, tall Derrick Morgan!

Well, here's a song which is still regarded as one of the biggest selling West Indian hits in this country ever. The only reason it never entered the British pop charts in 1962 was because it was sold from shops which did not make chart returns. It's called Housewives Choice, and indeed it was in more ways than one.

Derrick And it's still going!

Rodigan This is Derrick and Patsy. A legend. This was a hit record. I think every West Indian home in this country alone had a copy of this

(track played: Derrick & Patsy, Housewives Choice)

Rodigan That was a sweet day you recorded that wasn't it?

Derrick Yeah! This song name Housewives Choice, the correct name for it was You Don't Know How Much I Love You. But because of the request that it used to get on the radio station, Marie Garth change the name and called it Housewives Choice.

Rodigan Marie Garth, the famous radio Jamaican personality, she retitled it Housewives Choice. Well in this country alone it sold hundereds of thousands of copies. Where were you born and raised Derrick? Let's look at those early years.

Derrick Well, we know Jamaica, but the parish is Clarendon, in a district called Mocho (sp. ?).

Rodigan Ah, you're a country boy!

Derrick Yeah. I left Moko at the age of three, because of my sight. My aunt find that I weren't seeing in the dark. She take me home from a friend house and on the way back home in the dusk, she find me bucking and everywhere. So she walk away and leave me, and watching me, there I was falling over stones and everywhere. And she find out say this no right. Now my mummy was in Kingston working, so she call me mummy and mek her know that - wrote me mummy 'cos those days we don't have 'phone - let her know that I'm not seeing.

Me mother decide to take me back to Kingston, and when I went to Kingston, she took me to the doctor's, and then they show her that I'm suffering from night blindness, wherein the older I be, it be worse. They couldn't help it. I came in to London in 1963, with (Emile) Shallit, which was Blue Beat, and he took me to the doctor's here and they say it's a West Indian sickness. They took the photo's here, and they send them over to Liberia, and they returned th answer that it was still a West Indian sickness. I went to Canada in 1976, and I check those doctor's there, and they're telling me about it's called retina pigmentosis. And when I went to US they told me about it same way. That's how the eyes them get bad, and I don't see anything up 'til now. Really I'm from Clarendon, Moko.

(track played: Lover Boy)

Rodigan 42 years ago, Kingston, Jamaica, a young Derrick Morgan at the microphone stand. Was that recorded at the radio station or at Federal?

Derrick No it was at Federal.

Rodigan How did you get to make your first record? 'Cos surely that would have been a hard thing to do, a hard nut to crack.

Derrick While I was with Bim & Bam, going around the island, singing like Little Richard, Owen Grey and Wilfred Edwards, the Jiving Juniors which is Derrick Harriot, you have Downbeats which is Count Prince Miller, and Higgs & Wilson, all those singers was there with Bim & Bam. One day I heard on the radio, Jackie Edwards song which is Your Eye's Are Dreamy and then I hear a Owen Grey, and then I hear Oh Manny, with Higgs & Wilson. And all of them was with me at Bim & Bam. I said to Owen, "Owen, how you get to be on the radio?" Because it was new to me - how they get on the radio. So he said, "Bwoy, is just the time." So he didn't tell me, he keeping it a secret! I go to Jackie, and Jackie still didn't tell me how he get on the radio! But on my way home one day I met a guy and he say "Derrick, you don't hear Duke Reid having audition for record music?" I say "yes? Where Duke Reid is?" And him tell me, at Bond Street and Charles Street corner.

So I went home, I was living at a place called Orange Lane, BIG yard, call it Buddy and Ricketts yard - Monty Morris was living there also. So I went to the fire brigade station which is right in front, and I sit on the wall with a pen and paper - 'cos I could see it to read and write at the time - and I wrote this song called Lover Boy, and I wrote this one called Oh My Love Is Gone, sing and making the music with my mouth. So I say I'm going to meet this man called Duke Reid. When I went down Bond Street now to Duke, I saw this man with a big gun at him side, which is strange to me too, and he was selling, because it was a liquor store. So I come in to him and I say "good day sir, I would like to speak to Mr. Reid." Him say "Yeah, I am Mr. Reid", I say "well I have two songs I would like you to listen to, because I heard you are taking audition." He say "can you sing?" I said "yes"him say "well sing!" And there was a lot of people there around the counter buying, so I ask him if is there I must sing, he say "yeah, sing!" And I sing Lover Boy, he say "have you anymore?" I say "yes," and I sing Oh My Love Is Gone, he say "alright, you come to Majestic on Wednesday." So Wednesday I find Majestic, the Theatre, and there was Drumbago and his all star there, rehearsing man like Dobby Dobson, you have Sims & Robinson, and a few more artist. And I go there and I rehearse Lover Boy and I rehearse Oh My Love Is Gone, and the Thursday he took us to Federal, which was on Bell Road, and I recorded first that day!

Rodigan Were you nervous?

Derrick No. I weren't nervous. Through I used to the stage, I get used to the stage, I weren't nervous. And I recorded, and it was one cut. We just run through it in the studio, like how we rehearse it on the Wednesday, and the Thursday we just record it. Straight. They just say "red light!" and we go straight. And I finish, Rico Rodriguez was there too in that band, because he was the one who take the solo in it. The Saturday, while I was in Orange Lane now, Duke Reid have a programme name "Treasure Isle Time", and while I listening to Duke Reid programme there was the first song that I heard on the radio was Oh My Love Is Gone. You could imagine how I feel at the time, I start jumping all over the place and calling everyone in the yard "come listen, that is me!" Nobody believe it, cos they didn't know I went and record it. And from there, they never turn me back.

Rodigan How did you come to record for Buster? You'd started out with Duke Reid, why did you leave Duke Reid's camp and what prompted you to join Buster.

Derrick OK. Well, going home one day again, I met Prince Buster, and he come to me and say "Derrick, I get some finance from Duke Reid and would like to do some recording", so if I could help him out, because I was recording before he started. So I say to him "yeah." Him say he will be at the studio at such and such a time, so if I could come there. And I went there, and he had a song called They Got To Go, and I fix it up for him. Him decide to record that song, and then I say "well, I'll give you a song", and I give him Shake A Leg. That was the first song I sing for him. And that's how Buster and I become friends, and start recording for Prince Buster from then.

Rodigan But why did you leave Buster? Because this is where controversy starts to kick in and the whole business of clashing on record, which was the first time it had ever happened in the history of Jamaica music, and it became the benchmark for future clashes, Shabba versus Ninjaman, Jazzbo versus I Roy, Jacob Miller versus Johnny Clarke, Beenie Man versus Bounty Killer and so on. And even you versus I Roy, but why did you leave and what was his feeling towards you.

Derrick Well, why I leave Buster now. I didn't really leave Buster say "I leaving Buster." What happened, one day this yout' come to my house and said this man send him to find me, which is Leslie Kong, Beverley's, and that was Jimmy Cliff. And Jimmy Cliff came to my yard and say he have a song called Dearest Beverley, and say he want to record it for Beverley's. But at the time Beverley's never do recording before. I know Beverley's shop was just a restaurant on the corner of North Street and Orange Street. He say that they asking me to listen to his song and if it sound good, he should bring me to them. I listen Jimmy song and say well this is a ballad, I don't think they would like ballad, 'cos it's not ballad doing it now. We are doing ska music.

He say he have a title called Hurricane Hattie, and he start singing it to me. Well I like it, and I say "well then, we can arrange up this". And then I met a friend in the house called Courtney Green, he had a song called Lion Say I'm King And I Reign, him say Jimmy should sing that too. So Jimmy learn the song, and him take me to meet Leslie Kong. When I reach there Leslie ask me "how did Jimmy sound?" I said "very good." Him said "do we have any musician who could do some recording?" Well, I introduce Drumbago to him, and the all stars, and well we go down to Greenwich Farm, place called Blissett, Mr. Blissett home, to do some rehearsal with Jimmy and myself. I didn't have a song ready for Leslie at that session, because really I never have him in mind, but we went to the studio, and while we were at the studio with Jimmy Cliff recording Hurricane Hattie, there I met Owen. And I said to Owen if him want to sing a song for this company and him say "yeah". Me say "well, his name is Leslie Kong" Owen come in with a tune name My Darling Patricia, and then him start saying bwoy, him is the best, nothing can't beat him. So right there, I start to write a song. I write a song called Be Still I'm your superior.

Rodigan Ahh, so that's who it was directed at!

Derrick Direct to Owen Grey's head, I made that song. And I recorded it that day, and I have one in my bag that called Sunday, Monday, which is She's Gone, and I decide to record those two songs for Les, and there Les started. Now, the reason why I leave Prince, Prince used to pay ten pound per song, Duke Reid pay ten pounds per song, well, Leslie was paying twenty pounds per song. So I want the big money now! So I started recording for Leslie. While I was there, I made this song called Forward March, I made that for Leslie at the independent time. So when Prince hear that song, Prince say that I took his belongings to the chineeman, which is the solo that Headley Bennett, who we call Deadly Headley now, he blow that solo in Forward March. And then Buster claim that that solo is very close to his song that name They Got To Come, and that's how he decide to write song off me called Blackhead Chinaman.

(track played: Prince Buster, Blackhead Chinaman)

Rodigan Prince Buster went for you on record! Was that a surprise? It must have been.

Derrick Yes, it was a surprise to me because, is a gentleman come to Beverley's and say "bwoy, I was in the studio today y'know and I hear Prince Buster sing a song, and say is you him sing it off it name Blackhead Chinaman." Me say "you know any lyrics wha' him sing", and was giving me a little part of it, and I run 'round the back and I start go on the piano and start writing, and I give him this one!

(track played: Blazing Fire)

Rodigan Fire in Jamaica, Derrick Morgan and Blazing Fire, how did Prince Buster take that one?

Derrick I don't know, but he started recording more songs off me, one called Praise Without Raise, and I retaliated with say "when I with you I neither get praise, much less raise" (from Still Insist - AC)

Rodigan I even heard there were fights between rival gangs of rude boys, over which of you was the better singer.

Derrick Yes, that is true. Prince and I had to take pictures in the Gleaner, hugging up, just to stop this riot that going on. The government ask us to do that, because the people who love me, which is my fans, would be fighting Prince Buster's fans. One say me singing better, one say Prince Buster talk, one say this song better, the other..y'know? Big dispute among the audience y'know? So the idea was to stop it by taking pictures, hugging, and the headline is "Best Of Friends"

Rodigan One of the most famous set of recordings in the history of Jamaican music, is the appearance of Judge Dread, created if my memory serves me correctly by Prince Buster, to deal with rude boys and rude boy violence, and then of course your fantastic counter action to that Tougher Than Tough rude boys in court. How did that all come about.

Derrick Well, really in truth, this is how it goes. Buster and I was on Sting in Jamaica the other day, say about two years ago, and he go to the crowd and tell them said he sing Judge Dread in court, and I follow sing Tougher Than Tough. Well that's not true. The first song is Tougher Than Tough. And if you listen to Judge Dread in court, it tell you, because what Buster says in Judge Dread "who authorise you to go down Sutton Street and tell the Judge 'bout rudies don't fear?" That mean he got to hear my song first.

(track played: Tougher Than Tough -aka-Rudies In Court)

Rodigan So let's put the record straight in the controversy, and friendly musical war between Buster and Derrick Morgan. Here's Buster's piece.

(track played: Prince Buster, Judge Dread [400 Years])

Rodigan This is Lee Perry playing this role (the rude boys in Buster's Judge Dread). And then of course there was another version from Mr. Morgan, who appeared as Judge Black Sulphuric Acid! (laughs) What was that about?

Derrick Well, you see, Buster give his sentence was 400 years, so when I decide to sentence him, I say I'm like black sulphuric acid, and him can stay in jail until him pistol become cannon!

(track played: Judge Dread In Court)

Rodigan You mentioned off air there that the character answering the judge is in fact Desmond Dekker.

Derrick Oh yes, that's Desmond Dekker. Desmond Dekker sing a lot of songs with me in Beverley's, he do a lot of back up for me, like Tougher Than Tough, he was the harmoniser. This is him and George Dekker, the both of them doing the "oooh" and Desmond (the) talk.

Rodigan Derrick, the clock has beaten us. It's election time here in England and I tought this would be appropriate, hang on this is not a political statement from Kiss 100, before management start coming down here. A song you voiced back in Jamaica, during the 1976 general election in Jamaica, and you made your stand, in the way that we use pop stars in this country - the Labour party use pop stars and so on to support their cause. So we say Derrick, thank you very much for joining us tonight, it's been an honour for us, and I know all your fans will be delighted with all the stories and anecdotes you've told us.

Derrick Yes, my pleasure coming here David.

(track played: The People's Descision)